Measure B Returns to the Ballot?

UPDATE: On Wednesday, the Police Officers Association (POA) released a "Confidential Settlement Document" that City Manager Ed Shikada had purportedly agreed to put on the November ballot. The firefighters union Local 230 would have also been included in the pension reform restructuring. But, according to the POA, the City Council rejected the deal.

The police union's news release included a graph indicating that $300 million in projected savings could have been possible through the quashed proposal. 

However, Shikada released a statement later in the day essentially denying a deal was ever in place:

"We've negotiated in good faith in an ongoing effort to identify possible solutions," he said. "The document released reflected one proposal that still contained many unresolved issues, but it was one that we had agreed should be discussed with principals on all sides. It is not accurate to say that I, as city manager, reached an agreement with the litigants that was then rejected by the City Council."

After all the talk about pension reform saving San Jose's butt, it appears Measure B may be on its way back to the ballot.

City Manager Ed Shikada will strike up negotiations with public employee unions over some potential changes to pension reforms voters passed as Measure B in 2012. And the proposals appear to be as exciting as oatmeal.

One update would allow people who quit working for the city to pick up the same retirement benefits they had when they left, which is basically an admission that they should've have left. But it could (re)attract more street-ready cops to beef up the woefully understaffed San Jose Police Department.

Another revision would clarify disability retirement for seriously injured police and firefighters.

Those adjustments would ultimately have to come to a vote by the general public. The council has until Aug. 5 to vote to place a measure on the Nov. 4 ballot. State law requires the city to give unions advance notice and time to negotiate before the council votes to place a measure affecting terms of employment on the ballot. Click here to read letters to San Jose's bargaining units.

Mayor Chuck Reed, who championed Measure B and has maintained staunch support for the reforms even after they dragged the city into a litany of legal troubles, said the city is willing to make some changes.

"Measure B remains critical to San Jose's fiscal sustainability and is already saving us $25 million annually, which has allowed us to slowly begin restoring services," Reed said. "However, we also remain open to adjustments that can address concerns of our employees without having a drastic impact on our continually tentative fiscal situation."

If that seems like a lame duck compromise, Reed does only have six more months in office.

But the proposed revisions won't resolve the city's legal battles. Settlement discussions are in the works, but several cases remain tied up in appellate court.

"These changes provide an incentive for employees who have left the city of San Jose to return and will provide certainty to our police officers, which will help with recruitment and  retention of new officers," Reed said. "The City Council is eager to address these issues, and I hope we will get agreement from our unions that these changes should be put to a vote of the people in November."

70 Comments

  1. 500 less cops @ $185,000 each total comp salary/benefits annually = $92,500,000.00 in savings not the mere $25 million the mayor states. The $185k was derived from a recent Mercury News Article. It may have been mentioned even here. That savings is only on the police department. The city is saving a boat load of cash city wide.

    • so what if the city is less safe…..what’s a few murders and burglaries anyways hahaha, oh wait but don’t forget about all that mandatory overtime lol FIBSERUM lol not as bright as you claim to be mr. starry eyes.

    • Measure B saved San Jose. Imagine, two thirds of the cops retiring on disability. What a scam. And “spiking”, I defy anyone to defend that. The cops and the firefighters were the reason Measure B passed in the first place.

      • Two thirds of cops retiring WITH a disability. You need to make that clear. Have you ever been a cop? A Firefighter? No? Then how in the heck do you know its a scam? Is every City similar in their numbers? Do THAT research smart guy.
        Measure B was passed because they receive something YOU dont…a pension. Maybe you should be asking your employer why not? Besides, no raises for the last 8 years, no Christmas bonuses, forced overtime, 10.5% direct pay cuts, understaffed, hated by the likes of people like you who spread lies and false rumors, increased contributions to retirement, medical and cost of living….sound attractive to you big guy?

      • Do you really believe what you said? Or are you joking … While all the other ca cities are doing well SJ is in the tank. While cops offered savings without going to court Liccardo chose to fight in court. More Liccardo more fighting in court.

      • John,
        There is no “spiking” when figuring the police and fire pensions. You are presenting a lie. The pension is based only on the base salary of an officer or firefighter. Overtime, etc is not figured into the pension in San Jose. Pension “spiking” is a term that politicians in San Jose use to whip folks like you into a frenzy, but unfortunately, it is not true. If you have evidence that the pensions of officers and firefighters in San Jose is based on “spiking”, as you stated, can you please provide a link to that information? Here is a document from the city website showing that pensions are ONLY based on the base salary and not overtime, etc. Also, it is a blatant lie that two thirds of officers retire on a disability, just like your assertion that there is pension spiking.

        http://www.sanjoseca.gov/DocumentCenter/View/15500

      • One more thing, John. Disability retirements as a percentage of total officers may indeed go up. We have 800 officers, and falling, for a city that should have 2,000 officers. That leaves 800 officers to do the work of 2,000 officers, which means those remaining officers will face violent encounters more often, and will be subjected to fatigue and injuries, with less time to recover. No different than a sports team that is down players, and the remaining players get injured picking up the slack. The staffing situation at the SJPD is beyond the crisis level.

      • John – the retirement system has never and won’t allow for spiking. Also 2/3 retiring on disability is wrong. If there were once 1400 cops they would be down to something like 475 cops left if they had all left on disability. They are above that number still probably around 880 street ready.

      • I defy you, a disability retirement does not effect the city or pension reform. It just affects the employees taxes to the government. Get your facts straight.

          • Your right John it pisses me off after 10 work related surgeries but I took a service retirement but it has nothing to do with pension reform.

  2. “If you don’t succeed try and try again”, whoever wrote this had Chuck et al in mind

  3. This is all smoke and mirrors…. Its all a big ploy to look like the lazy council gives a damn about the citizens, crime and its employees. They’re all on vacation and won’t be back in time to draft anything that resembles a ballot change. From now until 2016 it will be status quo, meanwhile the stay order expires and EVERYONE is Tier 2. You have seen nothing yet. The exodus will be huge and all the haters can applaud and tell the cops to not let the door hit them on the butt on the way out. So do the haters win? The cops will be working for a community and city that compensates and doesn’t treat them with disdain. SJ residents get more crime, and we know contrary to what the haters will spew that less proactive enforcement translates to criminals running amok! Reed, Liccardo, Gurza and all the council jesters have screwed this one up beyond words. Whats done is now done. There is no turning things around anytime soon.

  4. Is there any way to put full repeal of Measure B on the ballot also as competing proposal?

    • That is what it would take for San Jose workers to stop the mass exodus . Why would they continue to work in San Jose when any and all Citys have better pay and benefits?

  5. The SJPD is down to a little over 800 officers, where it should have over 2,000 officers for a city of a million people. A few officers may return if Measure B is tweaked, but not enough to make any substantial difference. The damage is done, and at least 8-10 officers continue to leave each month. For Reed and Liccardo to now make this proposal, after all they did pushing Measure B, shows even they know this is a desperate situation.

  6. Someone is stupid to think the cops coming back. They making 30k more a year at other cities. And if Liccardo becomes mayor will any of the 800 stay?

    • Amen!

      I believe a Santa Clara Police Officer’s “Net Annual Salary” is $38,275.80 more than San Jose…plus…Santa Clara Police Officers only pay 12.00% towards their retirement versus 22.00% for San Jose Police Officers (which is the highest percentage of nine (9) other Police agencies in the South Bay and South county).

      Also, the “New Disability Policy” is an absolute certainty to insure a continued exodus of all San Jose Police Officers and Fire Fighters when an opportunity to leave San Jose is presented.

      I hope you and your family are doing well!

      Thank-you for your dutiful service to San Jose!

      David S. Wall

      • Please run for mayor you have attended every meeting for 30 years you know more then the council… And blessing to your family. And your continued watch of this corrupt council.

  7. Ed Shikada has already negotiated with some bargaining units – both sides came to agreements on some of the fixes but Ed had to take the negotiation results to the City Council for final ratifications. Council rejected all “fixes” and told Ed to go back to the table and continue talks.

    This whole exercise in futility indicates that Ed Shikada has no authority and that the Council majority that backs Mayor Reed is running the show.

  8. This is the equivalent of Benghazi investigations/lawsuits against the president/threats of impeachment in terms of grandstanding without any substance.

  9. > Mayor Chuck Reed, who championed Measure B and has maintained staunch support for the reforms even after they dragged the city into a litany of legal troubles. . .

    The Measure B train has left the station. The cow is out of the barn. The genie is out of the bottle. The Fat Lady has sung.

    Pension reform is here to stay.

    The union tribalists can whine about “unfairness” to the members of their tribe. They can hate other tribes and wage tribal warfare. They can march arm in arm and follow their leaders over the cliff and through the swamp.

    But time and modernity will ultimately prevail. The “problems” of the police tribalists are NOT the problems that people worry about.

    People want the police department to protect civilization and provide PUBLIC safety and security. The police tribalists are simply asserting that they are going to PREVENT civilization and undermine public safety and security, until they get their ransom.

    Brilliant! Make yourselves the problem instead of the solution.

    A loser strategy if I’ve ever seen one.

    • The only people who will end up losing in the end will be the residents of San Jose.

      The police aren’t “preventing civilization”.. They are simply doing their job with the resources they have, much of the time going above and beyond what is expected. You clearly have no experience in the field of Law Enforcement and you clearly know very little about the competitive dynamics of the hiring, developing and retaining Law Enforcement personnel. Yet, like any self serving, arrogant pundit, you feel the need to create a blog and opine about matters which you should leave to those who have experience and actually work in the field.

      What is really going on is politicians and pundits, much like yourself, are trying to be Law Enforcement administrators and run the operations by what they believe are their “expert opinions”.

      What good has this city seen come from Measure B thus far? $20 million in savings you say? – So they city claims it costs approximately $100,000 to hire and train a police officer – There have been well over 300 resignations in the past few years.. So.. Thus far we’re $10 million in the red IN ADDITION to the money being squandered upon Measure B litigation? Great job.. And its only getting worse.

      While you’re sitting around and blogging about topics you have no business dabbling in, why don’t you go research the alternative proposals which the city repeatedly turned down over the past 5 years.

      • > The only people who will end up losing in the end will be the residents of San Jose.

        Sounds like a threat, if you ask me.

        By the way, if the union tribalist efforts to undermine and wreck public safety in San Jose succeed, who will be harmed most?

        A. Pasty faced white male political consultants like Rich Robinson living in middle class neighborhoods, or
        B. Women and minorities

        > You clearly have no experience in the field of Law Enforcement and you clearly know very little . . .

        So, We the People should butt out and leave the policing of the people to the experts, like you.

        Our job is to just shut up and pay what the police tell us we need to pay. Correct?

        In a more innocent, honest era, that would have been called a “shake-down” and the society would have been called a “police state”.

        • You can blame that “threat” on the politicians who have stubbornly refused to sit down and work with not only the Unions but Administrators (Chief Moore, Chief McDonald..). The POLITICIANS sat by and refused to listen to any alternatives to Measure B, as though they knew their way was the only way it could all work in the end. (Its done great hasn’t it?)

          When it comes to matters surrounding compensation, hiring, retention, and retirement, yes – “You the people” should butt out.. This is why “You the people” elect politicians to office, “they”, speak for “you”.

          The police don’t tell you what to pay.. Politicians do. The market dictates what people with the appropriate training and credentials can earn. Clearly, the politicians in San Jose are out of touch with these concepts and the results continue to speak for themselves. And who’s losing? The citizens of San Jose.

          • > This is why “You the people” elect politicians to office, “they”, speak for “you”.

            Well, if the politicians who speak for me are saying “Measure B” is here to stay and you need to accept it, then they’re saying what We The People told them to say.

            Why aren’t you listening?

            And as far as you’re “negotiating” position and the fact that We The People have “stubbornly” refused to accept it, well, that’s what We The People do.

            We run the place.

            It’s a hint to you, that you need a different negotiating position. Got it?

            By the way, if you are a police officer, let me say I don’t like your attitude. I don’t think you’re suited for police work, at least in the type of community that I want to live in. I think you should resign and try working for a place where the citizens like being bullied and threatened by the their public safety employees.

          • “We The People” lol sounds like we have a token teabagger in our midst lol

        • Bubble,
          Steve Rogers never made a threat when he stated that those that will lose are the citizens of San Jose. He was obviously referring to San Jose citizens spending millions of dollars to train officers who are leaving in mass, and citizen safety is compromised because the SJPD has only 800 officers, where it had 1,450 a few years ago, and should have over 2,000 officers if it was around the average per capita staffing for a city of a million people. Mr. Rogers is not the only one saying this; even this mayor and the Independent Police Auditor agree the department is woefully understaffed. Please answer, Bubbles, what will happen if we keep losing officers at this rate? I am asking you this in all sincerity, and I would like to hear your answers, and what are your solutions if we are down to 600 officers in the next couple years at this rate. I would like to hear your concrete solution. Please do not tell me this is a threat by organized labor. This is a very possible reality based on the numbers of officers leaving for other police departments and those coming up on 30 years in the next 18 months due to retire. Did you know that of the 50 officers hired a couple of academies ago, 13 are left? We were suppose to hire 60 officers for the current academy, and less than 30 were hired. Those are facts. Remember, only your concrete and viable solutions please to how we staff the SJPD.

          • > Steve Rogers never made a threat when he stated that those that will lose are the citizens of San Jose.

            Well, for those of you who may have just fallen off the turnip truck, let me ‘splain.

            This is known in the world of small business as “selling broken glass insurance”.

            When the nice man from the local crime family stops by your shop and offers to sell you an insurance policy to protect against broken glass, what do you suppose will happen if you say: “Well, I’ve never had a problem with broken glass.”

            Do you think the local crime family might be able to arrange from some glass breakage to demonstrate to you that broken glass insurance might be a good idea?

            Do you suppose the police union might be able to arrange for some lousy police work and increasing crime to demonstrate that fat pensions for cops might be a necessary incentive for them to do the job they’re supposed to do?

            If cops are not working as hard and as effectively as the could if they were paid more, why not replace them with cops who will give a hundred percent or choose not to be cops.

        • Last time I checked San Jose is a well off community. So, yes, “pasty-faced” white people will suffer as well.

          • Bubbles:
            You are one entertaining kook. I would sincerely welcome the “business” strategy for the SJPD and SJFD….you dont know how many times I have run calls on whiney complainers like you, who dial 911 for a hangnail…I would LOVE to swipe your credit card and charge you on the spot…..and if you had to ask me how much, you couldnt afford it.

      • You can always tell the people who don’t know what they are talking about. They stick out like a sore thumb.

    • No one wants to work for SJPD. You can preach about pension reform all you want, so long as Measure B is in place things are only going to get worse. Other than just recently, I don’t believe San Jose has ever failed to get enough applicants to fill a police academy.

      • SJOUTSIDE THE BUBBLES

        so you think the tribalist unions are creating the problem… who are the triabalist… the union are just the cops… and they trying to tell you the truth. but seems you think there is some secret union thug perhaps. cops are leaving
        1. corruption and lies with reed and liccardo and bunch.
        2. they can make 30K more anywhere else in calif. better benefits better pension.

        the citizens are the ones loosing.. it not a shake down.. it the truth.. no cops no one coming when your daughter calls 911…

        • > 2. they can make 30K more anywhere else in calif. better benefits better pension.

          Well, great!. Take the 30K and run.

          You would be an idiot not to.

          I don’t understand what point you’re trying to make by saying you could get 30K more but you choose to be miserable in San Jose.

          • The point is that Measure B is directly responsible for the crime spike in San Jose.

          • >If cops are not working as hard and as effectively as the could if they were paid more, why not replace them with cops who will give a hundred percent or choose not to be cops.

            Well that’s not exactly easy when you can’t even fill an academy.

    • Get real you expect people to risk their lives for the worst pay and benefits in the state ? Feel free to be the first to apply . Anyone with half brain and ability is leaving San Jose for greener Pastures. so yes the cow is out of the barn and doing better at another much better run farm . Pension reform is needed BUT it must be negotiated and not litigated . You wan and expect the best Public safety , you just don’t want to pay for it . well when it comes to public Safety , you get what you pay for

      • Hey bubbles as retired cop. What part of the mayor and Liccardo are liars do you not understand. The cops are telling you the truth. Because of government corruption they are leaving. You do not like someone attitude on a blog? That is laughable how can you tell what anyone attitude is on a blog. The fact that the courts threw out 90% of measure b is just what the cops told you. But everyone told Liccardo Reed this. Yet the two lawyers will spend taxpayer dollars to fight a battle they cannot win. Basic contract 101 law says a contract is a contract if both party signed it. You cannot put a half ass ballot measure on and vote away a contract. Your dislike of police and unions shines through.

        And I don’t like your attitude and you should quit working as an aide for city counsel. As you are unable to see both sides.

  10. The Murky News, likely the worst provider of facts nationwide, recently reported that San Jose spends about $20M in overtime costs due to personell losses. Rufas claims Measure B saves $25M. Where are the investigative journalists in Silicon Valley?

  11. Inside a San Jose Bubble Brain:

    “police union” — Promoted by public employee-bashers, the term is factually incorrect. San Jose PD’s bargaining unit is not a union, it has no affiliation with other labor groups, nor is it a part of any collective of police agencies. It’s political leverage consists of two components: its shared interests with the community and its credibility — two factors which Chuck Reed and Sam Liccardo have worked tirelessly to destroy.

    “police union tribalist” — A resentment-based perspective that is politically popular but historically inaccurate. From its inception the SJPOA has demonstrated its commitment to better serving this city’s residence by lobbying and litigating to modernize policing methods and equipment and improve hiring and training standards — efforts not connected with employee compensation. Just one example: prior to POA “tribalism” (lobbying), the city was recklessly putting cops on the street with no academy training and without a standardized field training program.

    “wreck public safety” — Evidence of the belief, preached far and wide by Chuck Reed, that San Jose’s once widely-admired and emulated police department was taken over by “unions.” The truth is just the opposite: by way of association members fighting elected officials (who always preferred diverting funds to vote buying), the POA turned SJPD into a topnotch agency.

    “We the people should butt out” — Evidence of the delusion that elected officials and local paper accurately informed the public about policing matters. As a matter of fact, you the people voted for the illegal and irresponsible Measure B because you were convinced it was vital to maintaining police services (as the con artists insisted). It has done just the opposite (as the real experts predicted); police service is at crisis level (yet you continue to doubt the experts).

    “pay what the police tell us we need to pay” — Chuck Reed couldn’t have better suppressed your brain cells had he injected you with a syringe of his crappola. San Jose cops have never possessed the legal authority or political power to dictate compensation. “Need to pay” has always been a city hall decision (proof: despite the highest crime rate in the county and a substandard level of staffing, SJPD has never been at the top of the compensation list).

    “shake-down” — Evidence of the belief that the police association has power over someone or some official body. Of course, that he can’t name one such person or one such body doesn’t affect him. As individuals the only power a cop has is to take his/her labor and skills to market — a market that, like every other, bases its offers on its needs and the scarcity of those who can meet them. As an association the only power available is the power to illuminate its members and employer of market realities, something the POA tried desperately to do prior to Measure B.

    • > As individuals the only power a cop has is to take his/her labor and skills to market — a market that, like every other, bases its offers on its needs and the scarcity of those who can meet them. As an association the only power available is the power to illuminate its members and employer of market realities, something the POA tried desperately to do prior to Measure B.

      Well, I actually believe this.

      But, I doubt that you or the police union believe it.

      If you DID believe it, you would spare us all the hate and venom directed at voters and the people’s representatives and simply take your “labor and skills” to those markets eager to pay 30K per year more AND offer fat pensions, which you assure us DO exist.

      • Bubbles,
        400+ officers in the past few years have done exactly what you proposed, and have left for other departments. They did not need the Police Officers Association to know where there were better opportunities; this is readily available with a Google search. I asked you in an earlier post in this thread to give us your concrete ideas for staffing this department with the ongoing staffing crisis. Instead, you do your usual cut and paste of a previous comment and make a comment with no real substance or solution. I ask you again, please enlighten all of us and give us Bubbles concrete and substantive solutions to not only keep more officers from leaving this department, but actually find recruits that want to work for this city.

        • > I asked you in an earlier post in this thread to give us your concrete ideas for staffing this department with the ongoing staffing crisis.

          Believe me, I and many other productive members of society would love nothing more than to sit you and your co-tribalists down in chairs, put duct tape over your mouths, get out our Power Point charts and spend a few months of quality time introducing you to reality.

          Unfortunately, SJI would probably be annoyed if anything approaching this level of information transfer were to be attempted on their forum.

          You’re problem is fundamentally that of all tribalists:

          1.) YOU DECIDE WHAT TO BELIEVE BY DECIDING WHO TO BELIEVE
          2.) TRIBALISTS ALWAYS BELIEVE THAT THE LEADER IS WISE AND STRONG AND GOOD
          3.) ANYONE WHO DISAGREES IS A TRIBAL ENEMY.

          True 10,000 years ago.

          True today.

          Nothing has changed for the tribalists.

          • IE you don’t have a clue and therefore are incapable of having meaningful dialogue.
            Reply

        • > IE you don’t have a clue and therefore are incapable of having meaningful dialogue….

          > Bubble head is SO jealous he reeks of it. Poor guy.

          Well, the PowerPoint presentation isn’t going so well.

          We haven’t even gotten to the first chart yet, and you’ve already ripped the duct tape off your mouth to talk about your tribal enemies.

          > 3.) ANYONE WHO DISAGREES IS A TRIBAL ENEMY.

          > True 10,000 years ago.

          > True today.

          > Nothing has changed for the tribalists.

          • He works for Liccardo. He is just trying to keep his job. Liccardo terms out and then he has no place to go… Give Bubbles a break he just doing what he is being told to do.

  12. The whole concept of “collective bargaining” among public employees is flawed. If it was confined to just police departments it’d be no big deal. But it isn’t. It’s spread throughout government to the point that We The People (a quaint notion that causes young union enthusiast Anthony to snort in derision) are becoming slaves to servicing the debt that is being racked up- much of it attributable to the fact that the attractiveness of government pay and pensions continues to fuel government’s astonishing growth and cost. The $17 trillion debt seems of little concern to public employees. They’ve got their defined benefit with COLAs and with a medical benefit and that’s apparently all that matters.
    Organized labor continues to use it’s considerable clout to make sure politicians are elected who will help maintain the status quo. And boy have they been effective- from the gang of Democrat labor goons in Sacramento right on up to the Fidel Castro impersonator who resides in the White House. Public employees have got their people in place all right. But when there’s a hiccup like happened here in San Jose, boy does that rock their taxpayer financed world!

    The notion that cops’ wages are set by the marketplace is false. Each City’s police association has a monopoly on providing police services to that city. City’s have no freedom to shop for lower bids. The only ones with any bargaining power in this socialist scheme are the union members, who are free to offer their services to the highest bidder. There’s no natural counterbalancing pressure to help contain labor costs as exists in the private sector. The only pressure on labor costs in government is inexorably upward.
    Hence school district superintendents with $400,000 CALpers pensions.
    Hence smug, young pricks getting $60,000 to drive around in Priuses looking for smoke coming out of your chimney. Hence BART ticket agents who won’t look up from their tabloid.
    Hence LaDoris Cordell.

    But hey. Suffering this Brave New World is evidently the price we must pay to assure six figure pensions for cops.
    If only there was another way.

    • No beat cop gets 6 figures John. But keep on believing the liars at city hall instead of the guys and gals that will run into your building to save you while everyone else is fleeing.

    • I assume someday you will get Social Security, which has an unfunded liability of $10 trillion dollars, and over $80 trillion dollars when you include Medicare. Although I paid tens of thousand into Social Security while self employed, I will forfeit most of this because someday I will be eligible for a government pension, which I have also paid tens of thousands into. I guess my contribution will be used to subsidize those like you that will receive social security and medicare. I currently pay about 23% of my gross pay into my retirement. I am not sure what the employee portion of social security is now, but I am sure it is a heck of lot lower. Every issue you just wrote about can be transposed with issues with social security, which most of those like you bitching about a police pension will receive. By the way, I will soon be having my 7th job related surgery for doing my job and protecting the community. I earned my pension, and paid hundreds of thousands of dollars into this system, as well as your social security system.

      • Social Security. Another corruptly run government pyramid scheme that is absolutely riddled with abuse what with all the bogus disability claims, payouts to illegal aliens, etc.
        Some harsh Measure B style reform is in order there too. And I’d welcome it. For the good of the country.
        But it’ll never happen because Democrat politicians need to keep buying votes by taking money from people who earned it and giving it to people who didn’t.

        • Get real. Republicans wouldn’t touch Social Security with a ten foot pole.

        • And it will also never happen that you will not cash your Social Security check rather than sending it back on principle.

    • how did those tax cuts under bush work out? i’m sure they had no bearing on the $17 trillion dollar debt, how are those tax cuts working out in arkansas – oops came up short on projected revenues, what those jobs didn’t materialize?. bummer lol but to you people the fault lies solely with the public servants not the corporate welfare queens. taxpayer financed world lol yaaa i’m sure YOUR taxes pay for every single public job on record (or at least you try and take credit for) because i’m sure you just make so much money…..Mr. Galt

  13. “The notion that cops’ wages are set by the marketplace is false. Each City’s police association has a monopoly on providing police services to that city. City’s have no freedom to shop for lower bids. The only ones with any bargaining power in this socialist scheme are the union members, who are free to offer their services to the highest bidder.”

    John Galt,

    The SJPOA does not provide police services to the city, those services are provided by the public’s sons and daughters, none of whom will have had any contact with the POA prior to applying and winning the job. Once hired, each new officer has the option to join the POA, with no penalties (or dues) accessed to those who don’t. The POA bargains on behalf of members and non-members alike.

    You may oppose the idea (and often ugly reality) of collective bargaining but virtually all bargaining is collective. For example: even before police were granted collective bargaining rights cities were still confronted with the reality that, collectively, the type of men sought required a certain level of compensation. Thus, every cop’s starting salary was affected by the collective expectations of others of his type (and working men made it their business to know their worth). Cities opting for bargain hires got departments (New Orleans PD, for example) that were ineffective and stunningly corrupt, while those like San Jose, which opted for college hires, were rewarded with effectiveness and professionalism.

    Even before it could collectively bargain the SJPOA worked aggressively to better define and recruit the type of men best suited for the job, with the city — aware that such refinement comes with a price tag, so reluctant a partner that had bargaining rights not been granted the PD would have lost its ability to recruit and retain back in the wildly inflationary 70’s.

    Your assertion that cities have no freedom to shop for lower bids is contradicted by the current hiring drive: the city is offering a wage and benefits package of its own construction, one which the POA contends (based on its understanding of the job market) is insufficient to attract the quality and quantity of applicants needed. The results are exactly as predicted: Chuck Reed’s hardheaded belief in his own interpretation of the job market has proved a monumental failure, and put at risk the safety of citizen and cop alike.

  14. Hmmm. How do cities determine what to pay their officers? Oh, they look at other “comparable cities”. Does that translate into a “market?” Hey guys, the answers are obvious. Galt is not too bright. Don’t let him ruin your day.

    We all know a lot of officers have left. Mostly the younger ones who haven’t established themselves. The ones who stay tend to be the ones that bought homes years ago and have ties to the community (kids schools, spouses job, etc). They stay bc it’s hard to go.

    SJPD is top and bottom heavy. Like a sandwich with little meat.

    Look at how upset the retirees are. I mean why are they so upset? Aren’t they on the “gravy train?” The answer is simple. Bc they sacrificed a large portion of their lives at the SJPD. And, I assume it hurts to see something you worked so hard for become so pathetic. That’s what it takes to be part of that team at the SJPD. And, in my opinion, that’s honorable.

    Lastly, to think anyone would come back to this agency after some half ass modification is ridiculous. There’s no need to compromise when no one (city hall in this case) is listening. However, that does seem to be an admission from city hall that they didn’t get it right. Way to go chuck, liccardo and crew.

    • This is not a complaint. It is an explanation. Here is what I got after nearly 30 years working for SJPD.
      A certain amount of job satisfaction, mostly self-generated and rarely from the public (though always appreciated when it did occur) A reasonably decent, secure retirement, from a pension system that the City and I BOTH paid into for years. It wasn’t welfare.

      As a result of job incurred injuries I also have a portion of my skull replaced with bone plaster, am blind in one eye, lost partial use of one hand and have brain injuries that require enormous amounts of medications. I apologize for using my health care benefits to pay for that portion of my care that doesn’t come out of my pocket. Even with my healthcare (of which I pay a portion still; it’s not welfare), my medical deductible is substantial.

      Here is what I didn’t get. I gave up a chance at wealth. I made a decent wage but knew I would never be rich and as it turned out, I couldn’t afford a house any closer than 50 miles away from San Jose.For the first 10 years I got no paid overtime but at the time I retired I was getting paid an hour and a half of overtime a week, even if I worked 20+.

      I got no bonuses, no stock options, no 401k, no profit sharing, no “golden parachutes”, no severance packages and until I had enough seniority to ask for it, I got no holidays off and I worked nights and weekends for no additional pay. I earned comp time that low staffing prevented me from using. When I had my accumulated comp time “bought out” when I retired, I was accused of somehow bilking the public out of the “windfall” overtime money that I had earned over several years but was never able to use.

      Disability. Think. If it takes 6 people, with the proper equipment and experience, to move a piano down a flight of stairs, the job will probably get done with a minimum risk of damage to the workers and the piano. If there is only enough “staffing” for 4 people to move the piano down the stairs using lesser equipment like perhaps an old refrigerator dolly, they can probably get the job done but the risk of injury to a worker and damage to the piano increases dramatically. If staffing levels drop such that there are only 2 people to move the piano down the stairs and the only equipment they have is a small wheel barrow that one of them paid for out of his own pocket and brought from home, then the piano might get moved down the stairs in one piece but very likely it will also be scratched up, banged up and one or both of those workers is going to strain their back, neck, cardiovascular system and aggravate their hypertension to the point that the injuries may require medical attention and may result in a permanent, crippling injury. Now, imagine if some Measure P (for piano) passes and imagine that there will only be one person left now to try to get the piano down the stairs. He is dedicated so he will try to do his job but the likelihood that both he and the piano will be injured and/or disabled is extreme. Now, put the piano on PCP or methamphetamine, make it sweaty, snarling, naked and violent and have it throw the first worker down the stairs as a second worker miraculously is able to drop whatever he or she was doing and run to help stop the violent, runaway piano from careening down the stairs! Disability. Low staffing = Greater risk X (Disability+injury).

      This is not a complaint. I earned my pension, it wasn’t handed to me. I paid into the pension fund for years. It wasn’t free. If you give me my eye and part of my skull back, you can keep 25% of my pension to help balance the budget. Even more pathetic, if Mayor Reed himself called and needed his piano moved down the stairs, I would still go and so would any of the ever dwindling number of “piano movers” left in San Jose.

      • Thanks for your eloquent explanation, from someone who literally gave part of themselves to the city, protecting and serving its citizens. Even after sharing your story, there are those that will think you, or other police officers who have been seriously injured in the line of duty, do not deserve the safety net of a disability retirement, and that most everyone claiming a disability is somehow scamming the system. Our current mayor, and also Sam Liccardo have said as much to the media. God bless you for your service, and with the injuries you will never recover from. This mayor and his administration will continue to do all they can, even if illegal, to take from you what you have earned.

  15. IE you don’t have a clue and therefore are incapable of having meaningful dialogue.

    • > IE you don’t have a clue and therefore are incapable of having meaningful dialogue.

      Far from not having a clue, I’ve explained things perfectly.

      Which is why I’m now at the top of your tribal enemies list.

    • Observation, you hypothesized (with no evidence) that Liccardo urged Herrera to run for Mayor, wonder why Madison would support someone who stabbed her in the back….and when you are confronted about whether or not Chuck convinced Dave to run to split vote with Cindy so Pandori would get in runoff – you suddenly became silent.

      Bottom Line: Bringing up conspiracy theories with no real proof is not considered meaningful dialogue either.

      • From the Merriam-Webster dictionary “hy·poth·e·sis noun \hī-ˈpä-thə-səs\ : an idea or theory that is not proven but that leads to further study or discussion”

        I first heard this hypothesis on several newscasts by the talking heads that follow SJ politics. I did not view their comments as being conspiracy theories, because in my mind, a conspiracy theory is irrational or outlandish, which this idea is not. I found it an interesting hypothesis. By the way, I never used the word “urged”. I wondered if she were “encouraged” to run, and stated that I did not know. It was food for thought, and for whatever reason, you have overreacted to a simple idea. You are very good at twisting things around. Whether or not Herrera was encouraged to run or not, she did act as a spoiler, and might have cost Nguyen a chance at facing Mr. Cortese for mayor. As far as what happened with the past election you mentioned, I do not remember who ran against whom, or even which election that was. Besides, that is your conspiracy theory.

        • Did Cortese act as a spoiler for Cindy in 2006? If so, do you think Chuck encouraged him to run in an attempt, albeit failed, to split the labor vote – so less funded Pandori would get to the runoff instead of Chavez? Chuck did appoint Dave Vice Mayor, ya know.

  16. Extra Terrestrial Bear says:

    > He works for Liccardo. He is just trying to keep his job. Liccardo terms out and then he has no place to go… Give Bubbles a break he just doing what he is being told to do.

    Since you think you can read minds, could you read Liccardo’s mind and report back to us what his beliefs and proposed policies on illegal immigration are?

    And, could you also do the same for Cortese?

    Cortese should be easy for you.

  17. “For Reed and Liccardo to now make this proposal, after all they did pushing Measure B, shows even they know this is a desperate situation.”

    True…and we have to remember this is an election year and they are trying to get liccardo elected. The desperation definitely is showing. They haven’t given a d-mn all this time, why now?

  18. Let us look at the numbers. I use the City of Chicago as an example of an adequately funded police department relative to its size. After my analysis, I believe that other large California police departments are under-funded and under-staffed as well, so I do not use another large California police department for comparison, instead I use Chicago. The annual budget of the San Jose Police Department is $285 million, the population is 1 million and the sworn officer staff level is roughly 1,000. The overall budget of the city of San Jose is $2.8 billion, so the police department budget constitutes 10% of that amount.

    Let’s look at Chicago.The budget of the Chicago Police Department is $1.1 billion, the population is 2 million and the sworn officer staff level is nearly 12,000. The overal budget of the city of Chicago is $8.9 billion, so the police budget is roughly 12% of that amount.

    So Chicago is 2 times bigger based on population yet has 12 times as many sworn officers and the police department budget is almost 4 times bigger! There are many variables that affect the size of a police department, but the San Jose Police Department is critically under-staffed and under-funded. It is a miracle that there are not more homicides and violent crime in San Jose.

    After analysis, the city budget of San Jose should probably be $6 billion and the San Jose Police Department budget should be $600 million with a sworn personnel staff level of 3,000 to 4,000.

    This increase in sworn officers and budget can be paid with a special public safety tax. No we do not need soft drink taxes like they are proposing in Berkeley, we need a public safety tax! A sales tax increase of .50% would more than cover the cost. But Sam Liccardo would oppose this increase.

    For everyone’s information, I am a native San Josean and I am not a City of San Jose employee. I have seen my city go from a wonderful and safe place to a mean and nasty place. I want the San Jose of my youth back. I do not want San Jose to become Oakland or Fresno, or worse, Robocop’s Detroit.